The Suffolk Hyde Affair - Doc 78 Martlesham Heath Fire Station

Defence transcript/notes taken during interview of
Firefighter M Hyde 23rd March 1999

Location: Lowestoft Fire Station ADO’s Office

Time: Approx 1440 hrs

Present:
DO. G. Smith (Assistant Investigating Officer)
ADO. E. Meelan (Brigade witness/note taker)
SubO. J. Tiffen (Accused)
SubO. A. Wigglesworth (Accused’s friend)

DO. G. Smith.
"This is to do with the regulation 7 letter you got on 1st March - Is there anything you want to ask before we get started?"

SubO. A. Wigglesworth.
"Yes"

DO. G. Smith.
"What then."

SubO. A. Wiglesworth
From pre-set questions (Doc 75). "Can we see your letter of appointment as the assistant investigating officer?"

DO. G. Smith.
"Look you have already asked me that before and there is no need to ask that again – you know who I am – I just don’t understand what your point is – why do you want to see that?"

SubO. A. Wigglesworth.
"We would like to see the date?

DO. G. Smith.
"The date! – I was appointed on the same day as the letter, no the day after."

SubO. A. Wigglesworth.
"I also gave you a letter asking for further particulars."

DO. G. Smith.
"Well its all part of a process and basically nothing to do with me – if you want to take issue see ACFO Seager."
SubO. A. Wigglesworth.
"Alright."

DO. G. Smith.
"Anyway the interview is about the circumstances of your reversion from Temporary Leading firefighter to firefighter when ordered by ADO Saward.

SubO. A. Wigglesworth.
"So it’s about ADO Sawards unlawful order?"

DO. G. Smith.
"Unlawful – what are you talking about? – you keep mentioning this unlawful order"

SubO. A. Wigglesworth.
Hands DO. G Smith a copy of solicitors letter. (Doc 69).

DO. G. Smith.
Reads Doc 69 and pushes it back. "That’s nothing to do with me – I don’t know anything about it."
SubO. A. Wigglesworth.
"That’s strange as it’s central to your investigation."

DO. G. Smith.
"Well as I keep telling you I am just the assistant – I am sure ACFO Seager will deal with that matter - Anyhow I am now going to read the caution if you don’t mind."
Time is 1447 hrs Stopwatch activated.

DO. G. Smith to Firefighter M Hyde.
"You do not have to say anything, or answer any of the questions put to you at this interview unless you wish to do so, but what you say will be taken down in writing and may be used in a subsequent disciplinary hearing." "Do you understand the caution?"

Firefighter M Hyde
"Yes."

DO. G. Smith
"I want to ask you some questions about the circumstances of your reversion from temporary promotion - when were you first aware of the reversion from temporary promotion being imposed on you?"

Firefighter M Hyde
"No comment"
Stopwatch at 01. 47.

DO. G. Smith.
"There was a meeting between you and ADO Saward on 19th January 1999 when ADO Saward told you you were to revert. At that meeting on the 19th January 1999 between you and ADO Saward were you abusive in your response to Mr Saward?"

Firefighter M Hyde
"What was that date?"

DO. G. Smith.
"19th January 1999."
Firefighter M Hyde
"No comment"
Stopwatch reads 02. 38.

DO. G. Smith.
"Okay – At that same meeting did you speak to ADO Saward with words to the effect of YOU HAVE PICKED ON THE WRONG ONE THIS TIME, I AM GOING TO COME AFTER YOU AND WIN THIS ONE – or similar types of words?"

Firefighter M Hyde
"No comment"
Stopwatch reads 03. 52.

DO. G. Smith.
"Did you receive a memorandum from ADO Saward dated the 20th January 1999, instructing you to revert to Firefighter with effect from the 1st February 1999?"
Firefighter. M. Hyde and SubO. A Wigglesworth notify DO. G. Smith that they wish to discuss a matter in private and vacate the room. The time is 1452 hrs, the stopwatch reads 04.52 and continues to run.
The accused and his representative return to the ADO’s office with the stopwatch reading 06. 15.
The Accused responds to the last question.
Firefighter M Hyde
"No comment"

DO. G. Smith
"Did you revert back to Firefighter on 1st February?"
Firefighter M Hyde
"No comment"

DO. G. Smith.
"Did you seek advice and replace your rank markings back on your uniform on 4th February?"
Firefighter M Hyde
"No comment"
Stopwatch reads 07. 56.

DO. G. Smith.
"Have you at anytime received advice to disobey the written order from ADO Saward?"
Firefighter M Hyde
"No comment"

DO. G. Smith.
"I don’t have any further questions - Is there anything you wish to add or comment on yourself which you think would help this investigation?"

Firefighter M Hyde
"No comment"

SubO. A. Wigglesworth.
To DO. G. Smith. "With regard to the further particulars we requested, I remind you – oh sorry, Mr Seager has not obliged.

DO. G. Smith.
"Well basically I offered to go fully into the background before we started this interview but you interrupted me – anyway it is something you should take up with the Brigade Investigating Officer."

SubO. A. Wigglesworth.
"Who is the complainant?"

DO. G. Smith.
"Well hmm, its not a complaint as such – more a matter brought to the attention of the Brigade Investigating Officer and via the normal chain of command. So I don’t know – anyway my job is just to investigate the matter, which I am trying to do but you have basically frustrated me today. If you had have been more co-operative today it would have much better for us all and you would have found out far more. Instead by not answering the questions I have asked you have made my job far harder. If you don’t know the particulars its your own fault’s."

After DO. G. Smith finished his ramblings the accused and his representative exit the office and edit the notes taken by SubO. A. Wigglesworth. DO. G. Smith and ADO. Meelan help themselves to tea in the station canteen before departing.